Sandeep Unnithan March 28, 2014 | UPDATED 20:03 IST
Jaswant Singh with wife Sheetal Kumari
Q. Is BJP, a party you have been associated with for over 34 years, changing now?
A. The party has become authoritarian slowly in the last two or three years. BJP used to be democratic, consultative; it revolved around a political thought, ideology, around a political organisation. I think post-Mr Vajpayee and Advani, the space for discussion, disagreement and different viewpoints has died. The (NDA) Cabinet was really democratic because I have personally held very serious discussions and had disagreements with Vajpayee as PM.
Q. What were these disagreements?
A. On policy matters. It was always a discussion, a give and take. Now, every discussion is abruptly ended as not beneficial to the party.
Q. What about the NaMo chants you objected to?
A. 'Namo Namo' has a religious connotation to it. How can you reduce leadership to the veneration of individuals? Gandhi held no political office and yet he negotiated the partition of this country and that is a reality. My book on Jinnah examined one of the most important, cataclysmic events of the 20th century. The resolution for that was moved by the Congress party. Pandit Nehru's move was seconded by Sardar Patel and Gandhi was present. A number of people like Jayaprakash Narayan and Ram Manohar Lohia opposed this decision.
Why do I cite this particular example? Such a poignant event, the partition of my country… a motion is moved by Nehru and Patel... it is opposed... it is put to vote and it is lost upon which Gandhi intervenes to allow the motion to pass. This is an example of what democratic functioning used to be.
Q. Are you saying intolerance in the BJP began in 2009?
A. It began earlier. The declaration of that fraudulent Emergency destroyed so many institutions and squashed our democratic spirit and (D.K.) Barooah could say that 'India is Indira and Indira is India'. So this is an early example of the sycophancy that was infecting India. I think the 'NaMo NaMo' ritual is an example of the same tendency. The Emergency sapped India's essence and set us on a course of falsehood.
Q. Is there an internal emergency within BJP?
A. Yes, there is.
Q. Rajnath Singh replaced 'BJP' with 'Modi' in a tweet.
A. Those are of course the absurdities of conduct. I don't want to comment on a personality but... I don't want to say it...I will say something really harsh which I don't want to.
Q. Has the BJP president tried to contact you?
A. (Laughs) He hasn't. It's a matter of some wonderment as to why he has chosen to use the office of the president to expel me twice within five years. I don't want to cite how much I helped him when he first came to the Centre...that's all right...I don't think gratitude is a particularly recognizable feature in BJP or in any political party.
The party asked me to contest the office of the Vice-President saying you are not a winnable candidate...that's the reason given by the chief minister... she's not Rajasthani, her nature is not Rajasthani... she does not know the language of this land, the ethos, the culture. My wife went to a police station to file a complaint (against a calendar depicting Vasundhara Raje as a goddess) but the police wouldn't file an FIR.
My book is banned in Gujarat, I'm expelled from BJP and the same fellow who is now the party president tells me on the telephone "you are expelled from the party". Then he goes and gives a public speech, if you say one word in favour of Jinnah (breaks away)... Jinnah divided our country along with Nehru and Patel!
If they had simply not agreed to it, we would not have got divided. That is a reality.
Q. Are you saying that there is an alternative mythology being built around Patel?
A. Exactly. Why do you want to build an alternative mythology? The reality is so different. Just like Pakistan. Pakistan has had to build a total falsity. We are now some kind of second-rate Pakistan in wanting to build a completely mythological history. For what?
Q. Who made the offer for you to contest for Vice-President?
A. BJP's central leadership. I don't like to say these things, I was also recognised as the best parliamentarian. The country had better wake up and recognise the dangers that come from within. The BJP president proudly announces about a certain party member, "Main inke peechey chattan ki tarah khada hoon". What rubbish is this? When you begin to venerate an individual, you are putting aside the people which is the essence of democracy. Dissent is part of democracy.
Q. How does BJP appear to you in its present form?
A. I feel the communists, the CPI(M), are more democratic now than the BJP. It's ironic.
Q. Your opponents would say that all would be well if you had got the Barmer seat.
A. No. I would still have held my views. Why did I ask to contest from Barmer? I asked Bhairon Singh Shekhawat in 1989 to let me contest from Barmer. "No, you have to contest from Jodhpur." Then Chittor... In this fashion I was kept out of Barmer. Then I was asked to go to Darjeeling. The Gorkha Janmukti Morcha asked for me by name. Now you suggest that if I had been permitted to contest from my home, then I would not have voiced what I am voicing. What you are implying is that my protest is a small point.
Q. The Chief Minister says that you never approached her for Barmer.
A. She is factually wrong. It's insulting to suggest because there is a history behind her becoming CM and I've had a role to play... Did she have the courtesy of asking? I didn't ask her. I have spoken about all this. To her also.
Q. Is there is a conspiracy behind denying you the seat?
A. There is a larger issue. Why has Barmer, an outpost, become so important. Why did a Congress castaway, Colonel Sona Ram, come to BJP? Is there some sudden money in this constituency? I don't think you should go beyond asking this question, because this will explode sooner or later.
Q. Are there monetary gains involved?
A. I do not want to go further except say that very large sums of money are involved... with oil. Oil is a corrupting influence all over the world. The apprehension was that I would be a spoiler of that game. This is not an empty notion. This is what the whole world thinks. This is what a prominent leader of BJP thinks.
Q. Have there been attempts to get you to change your stance on Barmer?
A. Of course not. Because people know me in the BJP.
Q. Feelers from RSS?
A. RSS? Come on!
Q. Have the leaders in BJP become portable? It happened with Advani, Murli Manohar.
A. This party is no longer fit to govern India. That is the reality. If you are herded like cattle... I don't understand it.
Q. This was going to be your last Lok Sabha battle. Is it a fight for your honour?
A. Of course it is. A lot of people ask, "what if you lose?" At least I'm going to lose from my home and lose an election against all odds: The Congress and BJP are against me, the Sangh will not speak up. You know who is standing up for me? The Muslims of my constituency. They see me as some kind of protector.
Q. Would you go back to BJP if you win?
A. What would I go back to BJP for? I have continued to ask of Advaniji, of Rajnath Singh, of Nitin, why did you all expel me? Not one person has replied. That discourtesy of expulsion deepened the discourtesy of not telling me why.
Q. But the party has not expelled you this time. There seems to be a deafening silence.
A. It's not a deafening silence. It's a selfdefeating silence. This was an opportunity for the party to establish a certain philosophy of functioning. And it appears as if they are now paralysed into inaction. A certain CM or a combine of chief ministers plus the party president decide not to allow me to contest from my home constituency. Why doesn't the media ask this of this Jaitley fellow? Why is he contesting from Amritsar? He lives and works in Delhi. He is originally from Jammu. So why is he not contesting from there?
It is one thing to contest from your home constituency. Vasundhara can't understand this. Not a single Muslim was present at Vasundhara's meetings but my meetings were flooded with Muslims. I stand for this kind of integrated society which is our historical inheritance. And BJP, with the politics it has followed with my candidature, is attempting to fracture this unique society.
Q. What did you tell Advani when you met him in Delhi on March 21?
A. I met him for 10-15 minutes. I didn't tell him I was going to file my nomination, just that "what I am about to do might lead to our parting of ways. I want to thank you for all the years of association we have had". "What's there to say?" he said. It was emotional. We've been together for 34 years.
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